To ask the Minister of Education, following the 2024 Northern Ireland Life and Times Survey, which found that 55 per cent of respondents said they would prefer an Integrated school, to outline any action he is taking to meet demand for integrated education.

Mr Givan

I thank the Member for the question. The 2024 life and times survey finding that 55% of adults would prefer an integrated school is a valuable indicator of public appetite for integrated education. While such attitudinal evidence is important, appetite is not the same as demonstrated admissions demand. Parental choices will continue to be shaped by proximity, transport, capacity and the quality of provision available in each locality. My statutory duty is to encourage, facilitate and support integrated education. That is why, following consultation, I have published Vision 2030, which is our strengthened strategy and action plan that includes clear targets, measurable benchmarks and commitments to transparency. The Department is drawing together multiple evidence sources to build a more accurate picture of demand at a local level. That work is already identifying areas where unmet demand may exist. Where evidence demonstrates a sustainable case for change and statutory criteria are met, I will support new provision and school transformation. I have instructed officials to work closely with the Education Authority and the Northern Ireland Council for Integrated Education (NICIE) to ensure that communities with emerging or unmet demand are engaged early and that credible proposals for increased integrated provision are developed. That approach will also consider practical barriers such as oversubscription, localised shortfalls in places and geographic access. I will ensure that decisions are evidence-led and balanced and that we continue to deliver high-quality education for every child.

Mr Givan

Obviously, when it comes to provision, many different factors need to be taken into account. We will look at not just the information that the Member has highlighted but what over-provision there may be and whether there is capacity. What we do not want to do — this is not related specifically to the school that the Member has referenced — is provide over-provision where there is already capacity, because you will just be moving provision from one school to another and will have too many places. That is not a sustainable financial position for us when it comes to those types of decisions. I am happy to provide the Member with a further update on the school that he has referenced. I have engaged with my officials on that particular school. I am happy to give the Member a more detailed response in writing.

Mr Brett

While some parties in the Chamber are obsessed with one particular sector of our education system, I know that the Minister shares my obsession with ensuring that every child has the best possible education that they can receive. Does the Minister agree that the facts are clear: our controlled sector provides some of the most integrated education in the Province; that, just because a school does not have a title above its door saying "Integrated", that does not mean that it is not an integrated school; and that the demand shown in the life and times survey is met by our excellent controlled schools?

Mr Givan

The Member raises really important points when it comes to the diversity that exists across our school sectors, not least the controlled sector. The highest level of diversity is reflected in the population of controlled schools. We could point to many examples where controlled schools are more integrated than those that are officially integrated. I know that principals feel, often to their frustration, that that fact is neglected by those who advocate for integration with a capital "I". Recently, I met Minister Patrick in the Northern Ireland Office. When we were talking about the integrated sector, I made the point about how we support shared education across our different school sectors, how we promote integration with a small "i" in all our schools and how the Northern Ireland Office can help facilitate that. That is why I welcome his commitment to attend and visit a number of schools with me in the near future. That will enable the UK Government to understand that there are high levels of integration across sectors and that, in particular, there is a high level of diversity within our controlled sector.

Mr O'Toole

Minister, one of the strategic aims set out in the strategy that you published last year is about the:

However, from your previous answers, it sounds as if you think that the integrated ethos, which is more than simply a mixing of the numbers of pupils, is somehow a bit of a put-up job — a bit of a con job — or that there is something a bit fraudulent about it. In your strategy, you have said that you want to develop and protect the integrated ethos. What do you think it is? Do you think it is a real thing? Do you understand why it is distinct from other sectors?

Mr Givan

I attended New-Bridge Integrated College, just before Christmas. I believed very much that it was a real thing due to the wide diversity of sporting and cultural activities in which the children there were being given an opportunity to participate. It was also able to demonstrate a balanced 40:40:20 split when it came to the demographics. It was at pains to make the case to me that it was integrated not just in name but when it came to pupil catchment, enrolment and the diversity of curricular activities that it provided. That is not the case in every integrated school. Often, those that have transformed from controlled to controlled integrated have not been able to follow that through when it comes to the diversity of pupil enrolment. There is a challenge there. New schools have been able to demonstrate what many would regard as the traditional integrated-type school ethos. However, where schools have transformed, not only has it not worked, on a number of occasions, but there have been examples of where the minority community has decreased rather than increased. That is a honest conversation to be had. It is one that I had recently with Integrated AlumNI, when we talked about how we can promote the integrated ethos within our schools. I do not believe that there is any school in Northern Ireland, from any sector, be that Irish-medium, Catholic maintained or controlled, that practises and teaches a segregated approach to its pupils. They are not teaching their children that segregation is a good thing. We need to move the debate away from integrated being regarded as being inclusive and, if you are not integrated, somehow, you are exclusive and the problem. That is not the case.